Dear God, I listened to this interview a week ago on The Holy Post podcast. I was driving while it played so there were some things I wanted to go back to and spend some time with. It was with Mike Erre, who is a pastor at Journey Church in Nashville and has a podcast called The Voxology. I’ve been wanting to sit down with it and take notes, so I thought I would use my extra “fall back” hour this morning to do just that. So as I turn on the podcast here in a second, Holy Spirit, please speak to me. Show me what is on your heart for me as you make me consider my role in your world. [Note: if you go to the podcast, the interview starts at the 50-minute mark].
Here are my notes on the interview:
Should Christians engage in the Culture War?
Cancel culture is something your side always does and my side never does.
Phil Vischer question to Mike: How do you define culture wars? Answer: I don’t define culture war but ask the question, “What is the role of the church in the world?” The answer to that question answers the first question. Is the role of the church to transform society or is it to be transformed into the image of Jesus? The answer to that first question is clearly the latter.
Paul said, “Who am I to judge those outside the church? I judge those inside.”
There are 59 statements Paul makes that says the role of the church is to be transformed in community rather than be the agent of change for everyone else.
Rule & subdue command in Genesis is actually serving words (not standing over) to bring out the earth’s potential in ways that honor God and serving all.
We are ambassadors of a sovereignty that is greater than ours. We are property managers, not owners.
Making disciples of the nations is different than making nations disciples. (This one really struck me the other day)
There is something marvelous and fulfilling about following Jesus, and it is the best way to be human. I would highly recommend it.
Jesus invited people to be Christian, it wasn’t through guilt, shame, coercion or manipulation. It was simply love, service, and invitation. Loving the sinner before the sinner repents. The other is in direct contradiction to the way of Jesus.
We’ve gotten in our heads that the agenda of Jesus is more important than manifesting Jesus’s Spirit. We cease acting Christian in order to accomplish Christian goals. The way Jesus acts is manifested in his crucifixion.
Vischer (somewhat sarcastically): No, it’s manifested through flipping over tables and getting mad at Pharisees. Erre: Notice that he’s cleaning his own house, not the house of the Romans. He only engaged superficially with Herod and Pilate.
When the church looks out at the word from a posture of fear, anger, and threat we’ve ceased seeing the world the way the New Testament invites us to. Even in Revelation, the army of God is an army of martyrs. Even in Revelation, Jesus conquers by the sacrifice of himself and the manifestation that he is King of kings and Lord of lords.
The role of the church is to be transformed into the image of Jesus, thereby providing a counterculture of life in a culture that manifests the worship of death.
Vischer: Was William Wilberforce culture warring? Erre: It’s possible to be politically engaged in a way that is “cruciform” and Christ-like.
The kingdom of God does not operate on the “conservative-progressive” spectrum that the discussions come out of. The kingdom of God calls the entire spectrum into question.
Vischer: What is your posture toward people who are propagating evil against their fellow image-bearers? Erre: They are to be called out. They are to be resisted. They are to be loved, served, prayed for, and blessed. But we are to provide a counter community to demonstrate Jesus’s way. Jesus created an alternative and didn’t just critique.
People don’t come to church to have their assumptions challenged by the Bible. They come to have their assumptions affirmed. Good teaching should show that the discipleship we receive from culture, media, friends, etc., isn’t as beautiful as what the Gospel offers as an alternative. Church needs to be a place where we are working to embody the alternative.
The culture war we should be fighting is the culture of the church. That’s what Jesus was fighting.
There is real evil and injustice in the world that is to be resisted. There are reasons to be politically involved. But the available postures for us to take are defined by the actions of Jesus himself. Vischer (sarcastically): But what if that’s not as effective as showing up at a school board meeting and yelling and flamethrowing and doesn’t save my child from “drag queen story hour” at the library? Erre: I just want to say, read the New Testament. The invitation is to be faithful, not effective. Nowhere is the church called to do great things for God, and nowhere are people called to do great things for God. God does great things for God. We are blessed if He invites us into those great things. Apostle Paul: “Make it your ambition to be at peace with everyone, live a quiet life, and work with your hands.” We ignore the direct teachings of Jesus in order to remind ourselves of our importance. Jesus invites us into ruthless self-examination and repentance. When you do that well there isn’t much room for trying to control someone else.
When I approach the New Testament, I don’t approach it with anyone else in mind but me. It’s about my repentance and transformation.
People try to help the church thrive and unify by creating common enemies and fears. Group cohesion needs a struggle. But that cohesion limits our effectiveness in the world. It’s a violation of anything Jesus-like.
There is no biblical case for this tweet from a Christian nationalist author: “Yes, we are Christian nationalists. Yes, we are taking over the Republican party and the country. Yes, we are indoctrinating the next generation to follow in our footsteps. All for the glory of God. We can’t be stopped. Enjoy the show.” Jesus would critique that way of seeing the world as something anti-Christ. There is nothing more blasphemous or damaging in our world than that kind of thinking.
Vischer: Our children are in danger. People are coming for our children. I need to defend my kids. When do I abandon the way of Jesus for the sake of others? Erre: I live by three principles [I really like this when I heard it the first time. It’s what made me want to listen to this again and take notes]. 1.) Unless it acts like Jesus, it’s not Christian. 2.) It’s more important to be faithful than effective. 3.) There is nothing so urgent that I have to get off of my cross to make sure it happens.
Evangelism used to be pitched this way: Souls are at stake. If you don’t tell them, no one is going to, and they are going to burn in hell. That justified all kinds of Christian behavior around manipulation, guilt, etc.
What the New Testament seems to advocate is this joyful, gracious nonconformity that is willing to be persecuted, but does not have a martyrs complex. That simply rests in the fact that God is good and that I’m under not pressure to bring about the righteous ends for everybody else other than for me. For example, if there were a law made that children with Down’s Syndrome must be aborted, then I would agitate against that, but my agitation would be constricted by the way of Christ. If I think I have to disobey the command of Jesus to love my enemies in order to accomplish what I think the agenda of Jesus is then I have missed the agenda of Jesus altogether.
Vischer: What is your definition of culture war? Erre: It is a way of seeing the role of the church in the world that sees the gospel as under threat and any power over is legitimatized to keep the gospel safe, and given it’s rightful place in culture.
Vischer: How do you define the way of Jesus? Erre: The self-giving enemy love that does not use (Phil 2) rights and privileges to be exploited for more, but rather uses rights and privileges to be poured out for the sake of others. That’s cruciformity.
Father, please make me more and more in your image today.
I pray this through Jesus’s name,
Amen
Emails to God 